Bluegrass Tom

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Posts by Bluegrass Tom

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  4

  Information on Validity of 1914 Date

  by Bluegrass Tom in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  .

  here are a few facts that i have recently discovered by doing some research.

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  Bluegrass Tom

  Here are a few facts that I have recently discovered by doing some research.
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  33

  1,200,000 Publishers left between 1993-2002

  by Bluegrass Tom in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i have been bothered for some time by the sneaking suspicion that the publisher increases published annually are never realized in a tangible way.

  therefore, i sat down and studied a 10 year period of what has been published by the society to see if i could get a warm and fuzzy feeling about these increases.

  after hours i have realized the following:

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  Bluegrass Tom

  I have been bothered for some time by the sneaking suspicion that the publisher increases published annually are never realized in a tangible way. Therefore, I sat down and studied a 10 year period of what has been published by the Society to see if I could get a warm and fuzzy feeling about these increases.

  After hours I have realized the following:

  The worldwide Service Year Report for the 2002 Service Year includes reports from 235 lands, but is controlled to a great extent by only 19 Countries. They are; Argentina, Brazil, Britain, Canada, Columbia, Congo, Dem. Rep of, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Mexico, Nigeria, Philippines, Poland, Russia, Spain, Ukraine, USA and Zambia. These 19 Countries contribute 71.5% of the Publishers/hours/baptized, etc.

  Each one of these Countries with the exception of the

  USA 2002 Avg. Pubs 1993 Avg. Pubs Increase

  972,754 878,841 93,913

  However, in this period 371,252 were baptized. Therefore the increase should be more than 93, 913. Something happened to 277,339 publishers (371,252-93,913). I assume that these 277,339 are people that died, were disfellowshiped, disassociated or became inactive. The same is true in every other of the 19 controlling countries (except the 3 mentioned above), and the worldwide report in general.

  World wide 2002 Avg. Pubs 1993 Avg. Pubs Increase

  6,048,600 4,483,900 1,564,700

  However there were 2, 825,714 baptized worldwide during this 10 year period. Something happened to 1,261,014 publishers.

  Some of the Countries had straight-out declines.

  Country 2002 Avg. Pubs 1993 Avg. Pubs Increase

  120,801 122,245 -1,444

  110,987 119,730 - 8,743

  161,850 161,685 +165 (statistical zero)

  When the numbers baptized are considered this of course gets worse.

  There is no question that there is an increase in publishers, but nowhere as large as it should be if the people being baptized stayed.

  The next queestion is who are getting baptized? It may be to a large extent the children of believers, etc.
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  11

  How do I get the WT to delete my history?

  by Etude in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does anyone know if it's at all possible to see what the wt has on you if you're not longer associated with them?

  is it possible to request, maybe legally, that they expunge any information about you?

  does it stay there forever?

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  Bluegrass Tom

  I am sure that if you get the "right" lawyer, you can have your records expunged. There is a family out on the east end of Long Island (NY) who got a lawyer and had their dedication and baptism annuled legally. The result was that they are now like any other "wordly" person, and cannot be judicially prosecuted for the things that they do and say. They are subject to counsel by coming to the meetings, but nothing judicial. I would think that their lawyer might be able to advise on having your records legally expunged.
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  1

  simple but bad plan

  by tenrats in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  stay with me on this plan if you dare.i have heard that if one were to leaflet cars at a kingdom hall the elders will come out and remove the leaflet from the windshield.

  is this correct?

  i hope so.

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  Bluegrass Tom

  First you have to catch their attention. I don't think that you can. They probably are not interested enough to do anything. In the USA they know better than to go into someones car. Everybody is lawsuit happy.
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  7

  How to respond to any JW about The Watchtower being an NGO

  by Bluegrass Tom in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i prepared the following in abrief essay form from my research on the subject.. please read it through.

  it will take a few minutes.i believe it is comprehensive enough for use with almost anyone.. if any one wants it in word ot pdf format, i can email it you.. a matter of reason.

  the issue of being disturbed by the watchtower society becoming associated with the united nations as a non-governmental organization (ngo) is not a matter of faith, but a matter of reason.. .

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  Bluegrass Tom

  I prepared the following in abrief essay form from my research on the subject.

  Please read it through. It will take a few minutes.I believe it is comprehensive enough for use with almost anyone.

  If any one wants it in word ot pdf format, I can email it you.

  A Matter of Reason

  The issue of being disturbed by the Watchtower Society becoming associated with the United Nations as a Non-Governmental Organization (NGO) is not a matter of faith, but a matter of reason.

  There are no ?if?s? in this discussion. There is no ?if that is true? reasoning to be applied. It is a far-gone conclusion that the Watchtower Society willfully associated itself with the United Nations as an NGO, and then withdrew its association when the press discovered it. It is that simple. The rest is spin.

  To be balanced and fair, it must be recognized that the Watchtower Society did not ?join? the UN. Only a Sovereign nation can do that. They ?associated? themselves with the UN. This distinction is an important one, and must be remembered.

  Consider the following:

  On October 8, 2001 Stephen Bates, a reporter for The Guardian wrote a story that the Watchtower Society had associated itself with the UN as a NGO, and had this status since 1992. The Guardian is a well-respected newspaper, being quoted by the Watchtower Society, NBC News, etc. It is not a sensationalistic tabloid.

  On October 15, 2001 Mr. Bates reported that the next day following the article published on October 8, the Watchtower Society withdrew from association with the UN as a NGO. The reason given by the Watchtower Society was that membership was used as a means to obtain research material that was unavailable elsewhere. It should be noted that the Watchtower Society maintains that their representatives were told that in order to continue to use the library, they (the Society) had to have NGO status. In addition, the Watchtower Society identified language in the NGO application that was inconsistent with Christian belief, and as a result withdrew.

  It astonishes me that the day after The Guardian article broke, that the Watchtower Society made this discovery about unacceptable language in the NGO application. Is this pure coincidence?

  Here are some additional facts to consider:

  Mr. Paul Hoeffel, Chief, NGO Section, Department of Public Information of the United Nations confirmed in writing the following facts about the Watchtower Society?s membership:

  ?This organization (The Watchtower Society) applied for
  association with DPI in 1991 and was granted association in 1992. By
  accepting association with DPI, the organization agreed to meet criteria
  for association, including support and respect of the principles of the
  Charter of the United Nations and commitment and means to conduct effective
  information programmes with its constituents and to a broader audience
  about UN activities.?

  " The principle purpose of association of non-governmental
  organizations with the United Nations Department of Public Information is
  the redissemination of information in order to increase public
  understanding of the principles, activities and achievements of the United
  Nations and its Agencies. "

  ?In addition, the criteria for NGOs to become associated with DPI include
  the following:
  § that the NGO share the ideals of the UN Charter;
  § operate solely on a not-for-profit basis;
  § have a demonstrated interest in United Nations issues and a proven
  ability to reach large or specialized audiences, such as educators, media
  representatives, policy makers and the business community;
  § have the commitment and means to conduct effective information
  programmes about UN activities by publishing newsletters, bulletins and
  pamphlets, organizing conferences, seminars and round tables; and enlisting
  the cooperation of the media.?
  
  

  It should also be noted that the NGO?s must renew their status annually. Furthermore, the application and renewal documents have not changed in the period in question which is 1991-2001. What was discovered by the Society in 2001 existed on the same documents in 1991. Maybe they didn?t notice it? Try telling a Judicial Committee something like that.

  The NGO section of the UN will be happy to confirm any of this to anyone. It is a matter of public record. They can be contacted at:

  United Nations
  NGO Section
  Department of Public Information
  Room S-1070L
  New York, NY 10017

  Email: [email protected]

  Telephone: 212-963-7233

  Mr. Hoeffel?s letter can be downloaded in PDF format from: www.un.org/dpi/ngosection/watchtower.pdf

  Here is something further to consider about the statements made by the Watchtower Society about the UN Library. They didn?t have to be a NGO to gain access.

  The following is the procedure:

  1. In 1991 access was given for short periods of time, and could be achieved independent of NGO status. No NGO recognition was required.
  2. The pass was granted to individuals who needed to consult exclusive materials which were available only in your library and not elsewhere.
  3. The individual needed to fill out an application form and provide a letter of recommendation confirming the research.
  4. If this application was approved, instructions were given to the pass office to issue a library pass. This pass would contain a photograph of the applicant. The pass would have a defined time duration in which it was valid.
  5. There has been no change in this policy and procedure subsequent to 1991, except the issuance of passes has been suspended since September 11, 2001.

  The Office of Ms. Maureen Andersen, Chief, User Services Section, Dag Hammarskjold Library confirmed the above to me. They will confirm the same to anyone else. They can be reached at:

  United Nations

  Dag Hammarskjold Library

  New York, NY 10017

  Email: [email protected]

  The Watchtower Society stated that they only applied for NGO status to use the library. This is not entirely true. The Watchtower Society attended, as an NGO the Vilnius International Forum on Holocaust Era Looted Cultural Assets on October 3-5, 2000. Brothers James N. Pellechia, Reino Kesk and Virgilios Pudjevis attended along with sixteen (16) other Organizations. This also is a matter of public record. You can obtain the attendance record from:

  www.vilniusforum.lt/participants/international.htm

  The above is all true, above-board and honest. It is part of the public record. No ?secret? documents. There is no interpretation or misunderstanding. What happened, happened.

  The question is, how do you and I proceed with this information?

  Why did this happen?

  This question cannot be answered, because there is no plausible explanation that would legitimize this action or permit the membership (you and I) to intellectually accept and condone such action. The answer is that the Watchtower Society just elected to do so, and then when it became public, tried to distance itself from what happened. It is just that simple. If you have the temerity to ask them why, you will be branded a heretic.

  Why what has happened is a serious matter, and not a ?so what??, ?its not a big deal? topic.

  A) What has happened is contrary to the conventional wisdom of the Society. The Society maintains that their position on the UN is the same as always, and that they were using them the same way they would use any other Governmental service like the Court system or the public library. This analogy is not correct, and compares completely different things. The Court system and the public library are free for all to use, citizen and non-citizen. Becoming an NGO is voluntary, and unnecessary to achieve their stated purpose of doing research.

  B) The Watchtower Society identified the undesirable condition of the UN. This was not done by others. The Watchtower Society openly publishes condemnation of the UN, and then seeks to associate itself with it. Why? This still has not been adequately explained.

  C) The membership of the Watchtower Society (you and I) were taught the above (the undesirable condition of the UN), and warned that our life was directly connected with accepting this and other ideas of the Watchtower Society. A member could be disfellowshiped for not accepting this idea, or associating with the UN or other allied organizations.

  D) Many members have either lost their personal life, liberty, or have been severely persecuted because of political neutrality and adherence to this policy.

  E) Apparently, the Watchtower Society does not believe these ideas themselves because they elected to associate with the UN, and did so until discovered. They withdrew the following day. The published ideas about the UN must be untrue by the society?s actions (not words).

  In view of the above, what questions are raised?

  1) By demonstration, The Watchtower Society doesn?t believe the things that they have published about the UN; otherwise they would not have acted the way that they did. If they don?t believe these ideas, why should I? There published position can?t be true, otherwise their actions are suicidal.

  2) What else has been done that we don?t know about yet?

  3) What else has been developed as doctrine that is also untrue? I.e. Voting, blood, beards, etc.

  4) In view of their actions, what governance do they have over me as an individual? Only what I allow them to have.

  5) How can I represent, on a local level, an organization with these actions, and tell others to have full faith and confidence in them?

  It is a matter of reason and not faith.
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  34

  Response from my elders about UN

  by Sumflower in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i presented that document to an elder from our hall... he called and told me exactly what i expected they would say (library card deal).

  so i wrote the un and got a letter back saying they were totally seperate and so forth, and fwd'd it to the same elder.

  he told me at the meeting that night that he called again and got in touch with someone who knew something.

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  Bluegrass Tom

  Summer:

  Keep your eye on the ball. Here are the facts to keep in mind if you pursue this in discussion again:

  1. There has been no change in documentation. The documents that they signed in 1991 are the same ones as today. An NGO has to renew annually. They reviewed the application form 10 times.

  2. An article appeared in The Guardian in October of 2001. They withdrew from the UN as an NGO the next day. It has nothing to do with a change in languauge in the NGO documentation.

  3. There was no need to be an NGO to gain access to the Dag Hammarskjold library at the UN. All that needs to be done is fill out an application, accompany it with a letter describing the reason for the research, and indicating that the material is exclusive to the UN, and cannot be obtained at a repository of UN information elsewhere (like at Columbia University library, etc). The Library reviews the application and issues a pass. You do not have to be an NGO to get into the library. That has always been the case since 1991. I confirned this with the Office of Ms. Maureen Andersen, Chief, User Services Section, Dag Hammarskjold Library.

  4. It took me about 3-4 hours to find this out while I did other things. Therefore, anybody else can do it too! They didn't have to be an NGO to get access to the Library, and nobody told them that. It is a Bogus excuse.

  Hang in there. Don't let them put the spin on you pertaining to this matter.

  The Brothers in Malawi (starting in 1966) were persecuted for not buying and carrying a political card that cost 25 cents. Today that would be a conscience matter. See the 11-1-1999 Watchtower P. 28-29. Voting has become a matter of conscience. It wasn't in 1966.
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  21

  Letter to my Mom about UN NGO association

  by Quotes in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  the backstory: my mom became jw when she was young (early 20s, i think).

  my dad is an elder and has been for years.

  i had opportunity to mention the un thing via telephone a couple of times over the last couple years, always "buying out the opportune time," and encouraged my mom to check it out herself.. of course, she didn't bother to check out anything.

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  Bluegrass Tom

  Quotes:

  You handled this disclosure of information very well. I think it could be a model for others to follow.
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  15

  Sex abuse forum

  by Phil in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  .

  it appears that william bowen is starting procedings to take the watch tower to the courts.

  (desert sun 28 march,2004) he says that about 6000 sexually abused persons have contacted him in the past to express outrage at being silenced by the bad institutionsl policies.kimberly norris of fort worth texas is handling a case for 47 alleged abuse victims and she says that she has been contacted by 2000 individuals who have claimed to have been abused.. has anyone read about this?

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  Bluegrass Tom

  It was picked up and distributed by the Associated Press. The Washington Post ran the article on Sunday March 28, 2004.
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  76

  E-Watchman Has Sent NGO Letters to Over 5000 U.S. Congregations!

  by Greenpalmtreestillmine in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  e-watchman has sent over 5000 letters to congregations in the u.s informing them of the ngo debacle and a similar one to 101 branches around the world.

  and according to his guestbook post he has signed his real name to the letters!

  great work and great news!

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  Bluegrass Tom

  Recently an Elder in my hall found out about this UN stuff and deleted himself as a result. There are some out there who take a matter like this seriously.
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  22

  Cost of ad in New York Times for NGO letter??

  by pc in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  any idea what the cost for newspaper ad would be displaying the letter?

  pc

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  Bluegrass Tom

  Run the ad in the NY Daily News. It is cheaper, and they will run it.